Forum:Workbench?
I say no. I don't think it's a good idea. It's essentially in game modding. I don't have a problem with modding because it's tampering with the game; I have a problem with it because it would take all the fun out of actually finding a good gun by chance. That's the whole point of randomization, people. Usually you can find a machine gun with unusually high damage, but it is balanced by a slow fire rate, mediocre accuracy, a negative reload speed, etc. That's why it's so thrilling when you catually find a gun that is impressive in all 3 basic stat areas. Access to a workshop will pave the way for everyone running around with a 500x12 shotgun with 80 accuracy, a 2.0 fire rate, a 5.2 zoom, and a 20 round chamber. It's going to kill the whole point of finding a rare, perfect gun that only comes along every so often, or drops from a difficult boss. Think about it people, please. I will however, as a compromise, say that I am in favor of a "personally exclusive weapon." This is a gun that you begin the game with, and either through gaining exp., or just kills in general, you can evolve the gun throughout the game. It could have it's own skill tree, with redistributable points, and over time you could beef it up to be a very powerful gun. However, only your character could use it, and it couldn't be dropped or duped. This way everyone gets one gun that they get to sort of "make" a gun, without sacrificing the fun of getting lucky and finding that one gun that really works for you by chance. Thoughts? GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 23:13, April 5, 2010 (UTC) I really agree with almost all your points. The personal weapon sounds nice, but it would have to be limited in my opinion. Maybe earning ammo through enemies killed or something. That way you couldn't use your "ideal" weapon the whole time, but it would add new customization options. Freed23 23:21, April 5, 2010 (UTC) I think it could be a realistic idea, but there would have to be a lot more to it than just hey here's a gun let's make it awesome. Possibly some requirements of things you have to do prior to being able to even use it, then more requirements to be able to upgrade specific aspects of weapons, including new drops that would relate to being able to upgrade weapons within the "workbench". It would just obviously need some serious restrictions. I don't think it's in-game modding at all. I see it as the "Power to the People" stations in Bioshock; aka: you go only a set amount of times in the game and can only upgrade certain things. You're very limited, but you are capable of upping your gears quality. - K1ng 23:24, April 5, 2010 (UTC) i agree, but it should be limited per gun, cuz if it's only like oh, 3 times ever, then how could you choose? you know? and another thing is maybe like taking parts from two guns to make another that's better, you found all the parts for the final gun, but fate and probability screwed you, so screw it back a little, i understand people may not agree, and i don't think it would be necessary, but i think it would add more variety.--- GamerQ93 18:29, April 5, 2010 Considering my perfect gun is a barrel4 stock3 clip3 body4 terrible scattergun (the one i usually mod on chars that i am about to start anew with one classmod only in mind and then for those that support such a gun) 6 shots average reload and damage +3 projectiles (scattergun gives a projectile bonus of 0.3 aka 30%, matadors of 0.35 and an unwanted rof boost) and 0.6 rof(except dahl or any other riotgrip manufacturer grip), awesome stylish and pumpaction I still think you guys dont get a part of how to balance a possible "workbench" do you? if it would be so that you could only add parts from guns you have looted and additional only1 part of a gun can be taken for a upgrade destroying that weapon in the process and the disability to increase said boosted guns quality (maybe unless you combine with a second absolute equal gun), there would stil be the need for loot, tho it would focus for some on parts instead of stats, additional it could be simply made that you are unable to take parts of legendarys, but are able to add parts (obvious inability to change parts that provide unique/legendary/pearl effect) This way not anyone would have a ubersupercannon all the time, additional people would have a gun to their tastes (wheres my reduced rof but increased damage shotgun clip gearbox><) do not bash ideas because you are unable to think about compromises, not ubergun is the point, personal gun is Demonique 23:49, April 5, 2010 (UTC) I don't feel like I "bashed" anything. I layed out a lucid case for why I felt the way I did, without being deragotory in any way.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 23:54, April 5, 2010 (UTC) I actually agree with all of the points that ConceitedJarrad makes. Maybe the challenges that you complete in-game (like orbit achieved, things like that) could go towards credits for new parts. Say you have a lilith that has a personal "gearbox" (for lack of a better idea) SMG. She could use the credits earned in the challenges to say add a stock or add an elemental effect. however, if you add an elemental effect, the damage goes down based upon the element and the multiplier. IbanezRokr 23:56, April 5, 2010 (UTC) basic elements reduce a weapons damage by 0.4.... is it .4 each time? IbanezRokr 00:01, April 6, 2010 (UTC) To make a workshop more fair, I agree that the weapon should be destroyed after a part is harvested. Also, I'd say that there should be a chance for an unsuccessful harvest which results in a destroyed gun and no part left over. I realize people will get around this by just exiting and reloading, but I think there should be some kind of deterrent from taking apart every gun one finds. Also, I am against modding for most of the same reasons as Jared, and a gun that grows with you and is customizable along the way sounds interesting/appealing. BONESAAAWWW 00:45, April 6, 2010 (UTC) I guess what I'm worried about is people being given access to something that just lets you break apart gun after gun until you're able to build something ridiculous. It's easy to find one desirable part on any gun, really. Being able to do it over and over again just seems ridiculous. All you'd have is people running aorund with Double Anarchies with 90 accuracy. It would be lame.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 03:00, April 6, 2010 (UTC) ---- I view modding as something fun to do, and just like many fun things, it can be fun for everyone, and it could be a pain in the ass for everyone but you. Anyways, here is my idea, and please bare with me, this may be long, and also originally intended for BL2... First, there is a new manufacturer, lets call them ''GENE'S MUNITIONS ''(a cookie if you get the joke behind this.) Anyway, they make every gun, but they only make one of every gun, so theres only on revolver, one shotgun and so on. What is unique, is that these guns are customizable, you can change their color and apperance, color can be changed whenever your at a GM vendor/workbench, but the appearence needs various body parts to change, and these parts also carry various stat effects. So you would have a shotgun barrel that gave you +dmg but -rof, and another that gave +acc but - both rof and dmg. So you wouldnt be able to have all positive effects, each gun will come with some drawback, and if you were to find a part that gave allaround equal performance, it would be like Torgue, a jack of all trades is not good at anything. Going with the body parts, you would not get these from weapons you pick up, they would be like quest items, which you can only access at GM vendors. These parts would be built by all manufacturers, and would carry the same general stats of that particular manufacturers weapons, so Jakobs would have High power but low rof, and Hyperion would have high acc, and so on... You would combine these parts with you GM weapon, and it will show you what it would look like with a particular combination of parts. Of course the guns start out at white, and require all parts to be green to become a green weapon, and all parts to be blue and so on. So if you have almost all purple parts, but on green, it will still read as a green weapon, just with high stats for a green weapon; always the color of the lowest level piece. Also, orange and pearl weapon parts will only be accessable for a particular part, example would be a Atlas Cyclops scope, Jakobs Skullmasher barrel, and you will never have a orange or pearl colored gun. Also, these parts will range in finding difficulty, green will be the easiest, and purple the hardest, with orange and pearl near impossible. Now for the guns, like I said, GM makes all guns, but they only make on of each gun, so there is no variety like with other manufacturers weapons. Importantly, you can only buy one of these weapons with a GM vaucher, and you can only get three in the game, with the first being handed to you when you start. So you cant have one of each type; you can trade on type for another, but if you do, you lose all parts on the gun being traded, and all parts you are carrying. And like I said earlier, you can make your own color scheme for the gun. Finally, the vendor and functions. The vendors look like the lancer chests, but different color and a GM logo on the front. they only function like a workbench unless you have a vaucher on you. Weapon parts are treated like quest items, and cannot be seen in item screen. You can see all the parts through various menus (this is hard to explain without pictures, so I wont bother, sorry) at a GM vendor. It costs money to put the part together, soyou can mix and match the parts all you want, but once you pony up the cash, its all finalized for the time. Also, you can sell any parts you dont want for cash, or using an ingame trading system, trade and sell the part to other players; you aswell can buy parts from this network. Damn, that was long... Wouldn't it seem to make a lot of sense a be a little easier to make more people happy if it was like a skill and you could only get one part out of a gun to start with? The rest would be destroyed in the process, and with proficiency, more parts could be successfully taken out of the gun. Also, the chance of success shouldn't be a simple 100%, unless we're allowed to salvage more than one part, and then the percentage chance could be 100% for 1 part, and decrease by a fairly large number like 20% for each successive part. For instance, you choose to take the barrel out at mechanics level 1: you have a 20% chance that you don't break the barrel in the process. At Level 2, 40% and so on, and eventually you are proficient enough to extract 2 or more parts from the gun, with a total chance of 100% success perhaps, being evenly distributed among however many parts you choose to extract, or maybe something like 100% 1 successful part, 80% 2 successful parts, 60% 3, etc... the rest of the gun being destroyed once it has been taken apart on the workbench. You would need to have a place to store gun parts, and they could be sorted similar to whole weapons and listed as manufacturertypegradetype. I think this is a great idea to start with (the workbench), because it could allow people an easy way to understand and appreciate weapons more. And they're pretty confusing as of the moment. It's not even easy when modding. So this idea, even if believed to be a direct translation of modding in-game, offers more benefits to farming, creates depth to a major aspect of the game, and should be a lot of fun. I think Marcus should expand his business and offer his services in a dlc. EtherHead 04:42, April 6, 2010 (UTC) I don't see anything wrong with a Workbench. What's wrong with changing the scope, mag size, or even elemental effect? Just like the Weapons Vending Machine, Defilers are offered but they aren't cheap. Want that uber-barrel? Okay but it's $2mil. Want to swap x2 Fire fr x2 Shock? Okay but it's $1mil. MeMadeIt 05:17, April 6, 2010 (UTC) ---- That's a great idea too, but it isn't really a workbench you want. Even though I hear that kind of thought more often, what you really want is a shop that does it for you. That or an order catalogue... and that's really the same as modding, except in game. My original idea was that if since Borderlands themed 2/3 of the current dlc after weapons manufacturers, we'll probably get more, and maybe we'll get one where you can choose to get jobs from them, maybe an unlimited number of generic jobs, and then we could request a custom weapon for the reward. Although it would work better for an entire game... such as BL2. Your idea is great, I mean, ordering parts OR just checking a vending machine, either is cool. But I think it takes away a little of the challenge to just say "Take it back... DO IT BETTER!!!" (Quote from An Evening with Kevin Smith) EtherHead 06:40, April 6, 2010 (UTC) Okay as some seem to not get the concept of the parts, no part is uber, some may wield additional stats, other give a bit more to the techpool but have reduced damage (barrel3 usually, increases rof and elementals slight, but reduce damage as well) Elementals as well, they are all x1, except legendary elementals, what makes an elemental raise are the other parts of a gun that are applied (best i could achieve with a support mg for example is x3, unless draco or ogre) So no one could make real uberguns if the vendor wouldnt allow guns to be created within the randomization engine, so yes barrel5 anarchys are possible(looted 2 so far), but not without double prefix and accesory. And when it would be dissallowed that legendary(unique/pearl) are being taken apart, no one could mix match their parts for a true ubergun. Last would as well make the "combined legendary weapon" like a boomstick with friendly fire, ajax spear with ogre, nemesis/invader etc true rare and loved finds sry jarrad, but i did not meant you specifically with bashing, but ingame modding can be made well balanced if the rules are strict and duping gets removed --Demonique 07:44, April 6, 2010 (UTC) Honestly,as a personal opinion, if people hacked this game easily, then the workbench will be like open season on modding. People will just go back to making SMGs that shoot rockets or skullmashers with a hellfire upgrade. IbanezRokr 14:02, April 6, 2010 (UTC) here's something that would really take the fun out of the game,... create a class mod with a 100% chance of rare items.--Spiderschreffler 14:07, April 6, 2010 (UTC) both the "rocket" smg and the +100 find rare classmods are not possible in the game, so it wouldnt be possible with a workbench.....--Demonique 18:06, April 6, 2010 (UTC)